After discussing in class about whether or not it is wrong to say the Pledge of Allegiance in class, I automatically thought about a local issue in the Wheeling school district and Buffalo Grove High School that deals with the same issue. For those of us teaching in Wheeling, or have heard about Rob Sherman, we know that he is an Atheist father whose children are very outspoken about including anything religious within the school. I found the following article, written on October 26 in the International Herald Tribune, a newspaper in France. I was shocked to see that this issue was so global. Let me know what you think!
Atheist's teen daughter fights Illinois' moment-of-silence law
The Associated Press
Published: October 26, 2007
CHICAGO: A 14-year-old girl and her outspoken atheist father filed a federal lawsuit Friday challenging an Illinois state law requiring a brief period of prayer or reflective silence at the start of every school day.
The lawsuit asks the court to declare the law unconstitutional, said attorney Gregory Kulis, who represents Dawn Sherman, a freshman at Buffalo Grove High School, and her father, the atheist-advocate and radio talk show host Robert Sherman.
Kulis said the law is an attempt to inject religion into public schools in violation of the First Amendment. The suit also seeks a temporary restraining order to halt schools' obeying the law until the case is decided. A judge will consider that request at a Monday morning hearing.
The lawsuit names Gov. Rod Blagojevich and local school officials as defendants. The governor's office and state attorney general's office had no immediate comment Friday. School district spokeswoman Venetia Miles said schools will continue to comply with the law.
The suit also names high school teacher Binh Huynh, who according to the lawsuit is the teacher responsible for ensuring the girl prays silently or reflects quietly on the anticipated events of the day.
"What we object to is Christians passing a law that requires the public school teacher to stop teaching during instructional time, paid for by the taxpayers, so that Christians can pray," Sherman told The Associated Press.
An Illinois law called the Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act already allowed schools to observe a moment of silence if they wanted. The new measure changed just a single word: "may" observe became "shall" observe.
Sherman said he went to court after he asked the school board to ignore the law and was rebuffed.
It is not Sherman's first church-and-state lawsuit and not the first to involve one of his children. He has sought removal of religious symbols from city seals and a ban on Boy Scout meetings at public schools.
In 1989, he sued challenging a state law requiring public-school children to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Sherman's then 7-year-old son, Richard, appeared at a news conference that year, dressed in a blue blazer and red-and-blue striped tie. The boy recited the pledge without the phrase "under God."
"How can I raise Ricky to be a good little atheist when he's required to say the words 'under God' at the start of each day?" Sherman said at the event.
In 1998, Sherman was convicted of beating Richard, by then a teenager, and later was sentenced to jail for failing to complete domestic violence counseling. He claimed at the time he hit his son twice because he refused to baby-sit his sister, making Sherman late for his radio show.
On Friday, Sherman told The Associated Press he is "the best-known atheist activist in the Midwest."
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17 comments:
Melissa,interesting research. As discussed in class Rob Sherman is an interesting character, and I'll leave it at that. But I will say this. Having grown up a friend of Ricky - who is nothing like his father - I know his apperance in court as a young child was under the influence of his father, and can only assume the same to be true for Dawn appealing now. Therefore I have to question the specifics of this article but I realize that while Rob Sherman is publically acting against this moment of silence, he isn't alone in the battle. I don't know how I feel about the situation either personally or as an educator, but I will say, I'm glad Mr. Huynh stuck to his gun and followed the law, for it was the safe and appropriate thing to do. Having once been a student of his, I know he isn't a controversial man, but given the heat behind the situation, I think it was smart of him to follow the law and push the issue.
I think it’s interesting that this school has a moment of silence at the beginning of each day. The schools I went to as I was growing up only had a moment of silence after certain events occurred, such as the Columbine shooting, the 9/11 attack, a student passed away, etc. The way my schools explained the moment of silence was that it is a way to show respect for those involved in a tragedy that occurred. I do not think having a moment of silence is wrong if it is explained this way or as long as it is explained as a moment to reflect or do what you wish silently. If it is being promoted as a time of prayer then I do believe that is a violation of the separation of church and state. I think sometimes people look too much into certain practices. I respect that there are many people who do not pray and they do not want their children to be forced to pray. I agree, no one should be forced to participate in religious practices, but as long as that is not what a moment of silence is being promoted as, there should not be an issue with it. It will be interesting to see what comes of this case.
Shannon, I agree with you that a school having a moment of silence is an interesting concept. To me, that is just asking for trouble. If there are students and families who believe prayer is a very important part of their lives I feel they have ample opportunities to take care of this on their own. Forcing everyone to participate, I feel, is a violation of someone’s rights. I also feel that you cannot force someone to pray. If this moment of reflection is provided students still have the opportunity to think what they wish. Some may pray, some may think about what they want for lunch. Thinking is entirely up to the individual student still. However, with that being said I cannot help but be very annoyed with the way Rob Sherman is acting. He is obviously blowing things out of proportion because he wants the publicity. The fact that he has a radio show just supports that detail. There are better ways to support something than taking everyone to court. I also think we have an interesting perspective since Marla has been friends with his children. I find it funny that someone who seems to focused on peoples freedoms would force his children to believe exactly what he does. To me, saying “how can I raise my son to be a good atheist takes a lot of his credibility away. I remember reading a newspaper article about his daughter’s fight to stop the singing on the national anthem at Buffalo Grove H.S. This was interesting to me because though the song as a whole references God, the part that is often sung in schools does not. I don’t remember the details of this fight, only that it happened. I also remember an article later which stated their home had been egged. I wonder if the backlash this student is receiving is worth it? Is her father pressuring her to follow in his footsteps more than she would like? I know as a freshman in high school I was still very influence by my parents and I would hate for him to keep pushing his views on his family if it was unwanted. I also don’t feel that pushing his views on people supports the concepts the constitution has either.
This article was very interesting to read. I did not know that this was occurring so close to us. Like Shannon, I do not remember ever having moments of silence at the beginning of the school day unless it was because of an event that occurred. If the moment of silence is asking people to pray, it is wrong to do in public schools because everyone is different and believes in different things. BUT, if the moment of silence is to reflect on anything then I do not see this as being wrong. I wonder what would happen if the name of this practice was changed to “reflecting on our lives.” I don’t think that this would be such a controversial issue. To me “a moment of silence” does have some religious content because I have always heard it as a religious practice. But, in the school if prayer is not mentioned (which it shouldn’t be) then I don’t see the problem with it.
Sarah I agree with you. Sherman is not promoting freedom and differences among people because he is trying to make his children believe and feel like he does. I wonder how Sherman’s children feel about this. He is obviously taking physical force towards them to believe in what he believes in.
If you all were teachers at this school what would you do to calm this controversial situation? Reflection occurs all the time in educational settings (definitely in Elgin PDS). If the school changed this time to writing or reflecting in a journal would the case be different? I am confused on the objectives of this practice. If it is for students to think about their lives then I think it would be a great time to get students writing in journals. This way no physical actions look religious (like bowing the head) and students can write privately about anything they want.
I'm not really sure how I feel about this situation either. Like Shannon and Jennifer, the only times I remember my school having a moment of silence was after tragic events like Columbine, 9/11, etc. However, I don't think that a moment of silence is the same thing as having school prayer. Although some students may take the time to pray for loved ones who are ill or the like, I do not believe that the distinct purpose of a moment of silence is to say a silent prayer - whatever religion one might be. Rather, I think that moments of silence are more like a short period of time to reflect upon events and think about their impact. At the same time, one could just sit silently for the 30 seconds, thinking about absolutely nothing. The nice thing about moments of silence is that one isn't required to say anything that is against their beliefs. They truly can just sit there and not think about or say anything in their heads. I'm not sure I quite "get" what Mr. Sherman is getting upset about. To me, it really seems like he just wants something to be mad about, but that's his right too! :)
I had no clue that some schools take moments of silence each morning. Depending on the purpose of the moment, this can be very risky. I can easily see how parents could be very upset if their students are required to take a moment of silence to pray each morning, but I agree with the rest of you that Mr. Sherman may be going a little overboard. He seems to be exploiting his children to express his views on religion. I am a strong supporter in parents encouraging their children to think and make decisions of their own. Mr. Sherman seemed to be forcing his religious views on his children instead of supporting them in forming their own opinions. At the same time, the school also seems to be forcing views on the students by requiring a moment of silence to pray. This is not encouraging students to explore religion on their own and form their own views. This is definitely an issue of church and state and needs to be addressed, but perhaps Mr. Sherman is taking a bit too far by exploiting his children.
I also thought that the moment of silence was odd. I heard about it on the radio on the drive to school and asked Maria if Longfellow would be doing this. She said she wasn't sure yet, but probably not. I think that just as how the pledge has no meaning to the students if there is not a discussion about it,a moment of silence also needs to be explained. The way I understood the reasoning was just a time to reflect. I think that it could actually be a good thing in the schools. At the beginning of the day the moment could allow students to adjust to where they are and think about how the day will be.
I rememeber reading this article, but I did not know that it went global. In a way, I think that it is great that a 14 year old has such strong beliefs and can be so outspoken about her beliefs. However, when taking such strong actions such as filing a lawsuit, one should really think of the views of others. Does everyone belief in the same things? No, but what is the difference in praying at home than at school? I do not understand why the student could not just pray at home before or after school. I understand that private schools take time to pray and have moments of silence, but with public schools, there are so many diverse religions and beliefs. It can be hard in combining a time of silence for all these religions because you know that some parents may be against this idea. In my high school, we only had times of silence during 9/11, Columbine, student deaths, and many other reasons that others had said. I understand that this period of prayer or reflective silence may be beneficial to many students, but to many other students this may seem like a waste of time. What do you do in a situation when many students choose not to take this time into reflection? I guess it all really depends on how long these refelctions last...some people can pray for hours while others can pray for seconds. So how much time would schools allow for relective silence and what do you do with students that have nothing to reflect upon? In a way, I do believe that reflective silence is important in schools when it deals with the whole school such as school shootings, deaths within the school, 9/11 and so on. However, when such issues such as religion come into play, I believe that prayers should be practiced on one's own time. There are so many different religions with so many different beliefs. If students were allowed to pray during school, I believe it should be in a private religious school. People can take a time of silence anytime of their day. I see no difference in praying at home than at school. If students want to pray in public schools, they should manage to set a time during a free period or lunch hour in that way not all students are required to have a time of silence.
Wow. At first it was surprising to me that this was found in an international newpaper. I was thinking if a school descided to have a moment of silence, so what? Students can decide to say a prayer, say the pledge, pray for loved ones etc. However, as I continued to read, I was thinking that a moment of silence is actually a very controversial topic and it is a very big deal. In fact, our principal had told us at a recent staff meeting that we are not doing the moment of silence even though it has become a state law. He told us that although it is a very controversial topic, we have chosen not to go along with it. I have not heard any new news about that since the staff meeting and they are stil saying the pledge every morning. I believe that Rob Sherman has been on his high horse for a little too long now and needs to take a step back. I think it is very hypocritical for him to express how people should have personal freedom to do what they believe, but then he basically forces his son to keep the same beliefs as him. It may be more effective to give his son some freedom and let him decide what he wants to believe in.
I really liked what Sarah M. said, " If there are students and families who believe prayer is a very important part of their lives I feel they have ample opportunities to take care of this on their own. Forcing everyone to participate, I feel, is a violation of someone’s rights." Whatever happened to the separation of church and state? Of course religion is a huge influence over people, but of course this leads to many disputes among people. Calling it a moment of silence could be interpreted as a cover up for a prayer time. Of course, no one is forced to pray during this silent moment.
At my second phase school, the school explained that it was a time for reflection for the students. They did not feel that it was religion-linked, but I could see how this could be the issue in some schools. I am from Wheaton, which is probably the most Christian and conservative town in America. (No kidding, we have a Guinness world record of the most churches per capita). I went to a public high school, but it was not uncommon for people to read the Bible during lunch or the first question someone asks you is "Where do you go to church?" I am about 99% sure that they view this moment of silence as a time to pray. Of course, I could see some people objecting this and refusing to participate.
My question is how did this issue of having a moment of silence come about and why did it become a state law. I guess I need to research this topic more thoroughly and find out. I agree with Shannon and always thought that a moment of silence was for respect after a great tragedy. Who brought this issue to the state level and had this moment of silence passes?
I am currently in second grade at Hillcrest. After this article was written, my principle began the daily moment of silence within the morning announcements. However, he presents it as, "let's take a moment to think about our day." If the moment of silence needs to be implemented, this is a more appropriate approach. Prayer is not mentioned and definitely not forced upon students. Yet because this is not directly mentioned, the purpose may also be lost. I can only speak for my class of second graders, but they have NO idea why they have to sit and be quiet. They do not pray, and often see it as an excuse to try and talk. If a majority of the students do not know the reason for the moment of silence, and others are against it, I do not really see the point. Those who do want to pray can do so before school, or find a time throughout the day. They do not need to be told when to pray or for how long.
The debate over the pledge of allegiance is controversial as well. Growing up, I always knew the words to the pledge and would recite it daily with my class. However, I never actually listened to what I was saying or knew why I was saying it. This is something that relates to my current classroom. I have one student from Puerto Rico, and the rest are from Mexico. They definitely do not know what they are saying. I also think they should be informed of why we say the pledge and should be given the decision of whether to say it. I know that I personally would not want to go to another country and pledge myself to their flag and republic without being aware of what I was saying.
Here is a video clip I found from ABC 7 News. In the clip, Alan Krasheky interviews Rob Sherman and William Davis, a democratic representative. Davis is the sponsor in the House for this act. In the beginning of the interview, he claims to have created this change in the law to minimize inconsistencies with the previous law for moment of silence.
Website to download video:
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=ontv&id=5745904
Video to download directly:
http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wls/podcast/110407newsviewsvodcast.m4v
After reading how the different schools we are in implement this moment of silence, I don’t think this change in the law actually helped minimize inconsistencies. It seems as though more schools actually hold a moment of silence, but it is gone about differently within each school. I also don’t understand why the name of the act has to have the word prayer in it if schools do not actually announce the moment as a time for prayer.
In the local paper in Naperville, an article reported Davis claiming, “Denied he was promoting school prayer but instead said a moment of silence possibly could avert tragedies such as the recent school shooting in Cleveland, where a troubled 14-year-old shot two students and two teachers before killing himself.”
This statement deals with the ideas a lot of us have already mentioned about holding a moment of silence. I am not sure creating a 10 second moment of silence would really prevent a student from committing an extreme act. I think talking with students and creating a safe classroom community where students actually share their beliefs and learn to respect and tolerate others would prevent such acts.
This article shows a part of America that I am not very happy about. People like to sue over any little thing. I can see that you might take this "moment of silence" as a prayer, but that is not how it was explained to me. When first heard on the news they said that it is a time to reflect on the day to come. This makes the issue of church and state a non-issue. That being said I do agree that this is another part of the day that is taking away from instruction and personally a waste of 20 to 30 seconds. I think that it being a law it is good that the teacher follows it and does not bend for the complaining parent. If this guys has an issue he should go to the community to get a follow to better support his arguement.
Although I do not believe there should be prayer in schools, I think this is a great way to compromise. There are people who want prayer and those who don't, and this is a way to give those children who want to pray an opportunity to do it without actually having a time set aside just for praying. I think this is a fair way to do things because students are not forced to pray; students are allowed to think about whatever they wish to think about. Also, I completely disagree with the father's statement that the moment of prayer is time being taken away from childrens' education which tax payers are paying for. In the class I am in, they take 20 seconds in the morning for this. I don't believe that 20 seconds or even one minute out of the day gives reason to be concerned that time is being taken away from learning. Also, my teacher makes it quite clear to the students that they can think about whatever they please during that time. They can pray if they wish, or they can just think about whatever their mind wanders to. Those students who don't pray don't even think of it as a time to do that. In the classroom I am in, it is more used as a positive way to start off the day, to get students to think positive thoughts to start their day off right. I wonder if the law were phrased differently if there would be all the controversey over the issue?
When the schools were required to start giving time for a moment of silence in October, I remember the principal at my phase 2 school, just said, "take a few moments to reflect on the day ahead." I talked to my CT about it, and she said he never informed the teachers that we would start doing this. It wasnt until a couple days later we saw the article in the teachers' lounge saying it was required in IL. I dont think it is appropriate to have the moment of silent everyday, especially since the students dont know what is going on or what is meant by it. The students just sit and talk, because it was never explained to them what was supposed to happen during that time.
From reading other posts it sounds like not every school has started doing the moment of silence like mine did. Hillary and I were in the same school, and I would have to agree that the students do not understand what is going on and they just want to talk. I think if the schools must allow a moment of silence they should also have to explain and discuss with the students why they should take a few moments to reflect.
After reading this article, I feel completely naive and sheltered. I went to high school in the same district where this is going on. I had no idea these issues were occuring within my community. When I was in high school, I don't remember ever doing a moment of silence or prayer in the morning. It really shocks me to hear that is now being mandated. I remember doing a moment of silence twice in my whole high school career, one to commemorate those who passed away in the 9/11 attacks and another in memory of a student that passed away. I don't remember the teacher ever explaining what a moment of silence was. I just remember being quite as a way to pay respect.
In high school, for those that wanted to express their religious belief there was a club dedicated to them. If I remember correctly, they met before school and prayed. I feel that since it was not during school hours, it did not effect other students. They only prayed with those that practiced the same religion. Religion is always a very controversial topic that is hard to address. I am not quite sure how I feel about it. What do you when you see a student praying prior to eating lunch? Do you tell him it is not allowed or do you go on with your day? How much do we hold the First Amendment accountable for?
I agree with Shannon that a moment of silence is appropriate in a school if it is defined as a time to show respect or reflect on something that has happened. Throughout my schooling whenever there was a moment of silence my mind never once went to prayer, and I am very religious. I think that as long as a moment of silence in a school is not defined to students as a time to pray, it is appropriate. However, I do find it strange that this school has a moment of silence each morning. This may be what makes it seem more like prayer to some students because it is done each day, not just when a difficult event occurs. If this school is making the moment of silence seem more like prayer, I think it good that someone who is uncomfortable stood up for their beliefs. But, I do not think that having a moment of silence when a tragic event occurs or someone in the school passes away. I think that it is a great way for everyone to show their respect and reflect on the event that happened, without praying.
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